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18.04 = circular login problem on system freeze

Hey there,

Liam Proven wrote:
>Little Girl <littlergirl at wrote:
>> Liam Proven wrote:
>> >Maté is fine but can't do vertical taskbars.  
>> Actually, it's pretty quick and painless to get those on the MATE
>> desktop. I created a quick blog post and added a couple of
>> screenshots of my desktop. The first one shows a bottom and left
>> taskbar. The second one shows two left taskbars and one bottom one.
>> I don't normally use a vertical taskbar, so I just threw something
>> together so you could get the idea:

>That's a vertical *panel* but it's not a vertical *taskbar*.

My mistake. I misread what you wrote and ran with it. Although now
that I've had a chance to experiment some more with this, I think the
orientation of the applets should be considered (and adjusted, when
needed) no matter where they are in the panel. Even better would be
to give the user the choice of which way to orient each applet

>I get told this so often, I put together an Imgur album about a year
>ago to show what I mean.

Interesting, and I see places where yours handle things elegantly
that MATE doesn't.

>If you put the Windows taskbar vertically, the elements within it
>still remain horizontal... because alphabets generally work
>horizontally, and the most widely-used ones, left-to-right.

Agreed, and that's as it should be. In cases where it wouldn't make
sense, the applet shouldn't be offered, and, if present, should be

>So buttons should stay the same _height_ but change in width. What
>they should _never_ do is grow larger: the idea is to see more rows
>of controls, not bigger ones.

MATE is falling over on this in several cases. I just created a nice,
fat panel in MATE and put lots of panel applets in it. Some of them
behaved nicely, showing horizontally and with a pleasing size.
Several of them were huge, too small, vertical (surprising on some of
the text ones), and one of them didn't display everything until I
clicked in what looked like empty space, but was actually part of the

Last, but not least, the TopMenu Panel Applet fell over
completely because it displayed horizontally, so most of it was cut
off. It really ought to not be offered at all when a panel is

Part of this seems like it would be an issue to be handled by the
team that develops the panel and the rest would be individually
handled by whoever develops the applets.

>The object of the exercise is to remove any top or bottom panels,
>thus maximising available vertical screen pixels. On widescreens,
>height is precious, width is cheap.

Okay, I'll try this. That got me some interesting, and telling,
results, showing that the MATE panel and applet developers will want
to take a look at the behavior when the panel orientation changes.

I've updated the web page above, adding in a couple of additional
detailed experiments in which you can see the panels and applets
falling over repeatedly in various ways.

>So it needs to contain everything the top and bottom panels
>contained, while still showing more, in legible form, than a top or
>bottom panel can.

Or at least showing what a top and bottom panel can, which it
sometimes can't, currently.

>Compare the number of readable app buttons in a vertical toolbar --
>mine can hold about 40 with 2-3 words in each -- with the number on a
>horizontal panel: maybe 15 before they start shrinking until you
>can't read the text and have to guess from a tiny icon, or scrub
>over them with a mouse.

I didn't test this, but even with the default number, I lose some of
them just by changing to a left or right panel and I definitely do
when changing sizes.

>GNOME 2 or GNOME 3 can't do this with any number of addons. Cinnamon
>can't. Maté can't.

>Only Xfce and LXDE/LXQt can, that I know of. Of the two, Xfce is more
>customisable, so I use that.

That makes sense.

Little Girl

There is no spoon.