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I'm wrong or Will we fix the ducks limp?

Op 09-06-16 om 11:10 schreef BartC:
> On 09/06/2016 08:50, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>> Op 08-06-16 om 19:29 schreef BartC:
>>> I don't see why we should determine what a /proper/ reference
>>>> can do, based on what it does in one specific language.
>>> Because there are some things that such references can do that Python
>>> can't do with its object reference model, not without some difficulty
>>> or having to write convoluted code.
>> So? Maybe you have the wrong idea of what a reference is/can do?
> Maybe. Maybe in all the languages I've been implementing for three
> decades have implemented references and pointers wrongly.

Then I assume you haven't heard of smalltalk.

> Well, all my implementations of references and pointers meet Steven
> D'Apranso' swap() challenge (see his post in this thread about 90
> minutes before this one).

Yes and that seems to confuses assignments with mutations.
The swap challenge is based on the assumptions that assignment

You and Steven are expecting particular behaviour from the assignment
that is acutually depending on behaviour that mutates. So if the assignment
doesn't mutate, you can't expect that behaviour from an assignment.

Antoon Pardon