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Is Storyboard really the future?


Hi Sean, thanks for your answer, that's interesting!

My point wasn't about whether or not software X implements better features
than Y but rather about what contributors wait for when participating in
projects.
They want a simple and straight forward workflow with a minimum of overhead
compared to what they already have/know.

*For instance, here are the pain points that I can list from a newcomer
perspective (whatever its skillset is, senior/junior):*
* Having to install git review.
* Having to create another new account.
* Having to read an extensive amount of not really clear and seamless
documentation (gerrit/zuul workflow).
* Having to find the community communication channels (IRC/List).
* Having to install an IRC client.
* Having to find out which issue manager you need to use
(Launchpad/Storyboard/Trello/whatever).

*A more streamlined workflow should be something like:*
* Use gitea for issue tracking, whatever your project is, people are used
to the github/gitlab issue style nowadays (fork/branch/merge), visually,
it's easier to understand.
* Use OpenID from an already existing provider (Openstack
(gitea?)/Github/Gitlab/Google/whatever), it eases the authentication
process.
* Get a clear and straightforward documentation (One where I don't need to
open ten different tabs).
* Get a more modern communication platform (Mattermost is floss, other
non-floss alternatives such as Discord/Slack exist) that let you get
audio/video streams, rich document sharing, meeting rooms etc.

As usual, it's just my two cents on how we could ease things such as
driving new contributors, ease our contributing routine, ease communication
etc. Honestly, my very main pain point is about issue management both in
terms of workflow and UI/UX.

Le lun. 14 sept. 2020 à 13:35, Sean Mooney <smooney at redhat.com> a écrit :

> On Mon, 2020-09-14 at 10:17 +0200, Gaël THEROND wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Thomas Goirand <zigo at debian.org>
> > > To: openstack-discuss <openstack-discuss at lists.openstack.org>
> > > Cc:
> > > Bcc:
> > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:22:08 +0200
> > > Subject: Re: Is Storyboard really the future?
> > > On 9/14/20 8:59 AM, RadosÅ?aw Piliszek wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 8:46 PM Thomas Goirand <thomas at goirand.fr>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/10/20 6:45 PM, RadosÅ?aw Piliszek wrote:
> > > > > > I feel you. I could not so far convince anyone to support me to
> work
> > > > > > on it, mostly because
> > > > > > Jira/GitHub/GitLab/Launchpad exists.
> > > > > > Not to mention many small internal projects are happy with just
> > >
> > > Trello. :-)
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you just try to list all the non-free services you could in
> this
> > > > > thread? Seriously, don't you care a little bit? You probably don't
> > > > > realize it, but that's shocking, at least for me, and hopefully
> I'm not
> > > > > the only one.
> > > >
> > > > I feel offended by the accusations.
> > > > I *do* care about open source.
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy has already answered regarding GitLab and Launchpad.
> > > > Let's not forget GitHub actually *is* the largest, diverse open
> source
> > > > community,
> > > > even though the service itself is not. It hurts me as well so please
> > >
> > > don't just
> > >
> > > > randomly attack people mentioning non-free software.
> > > > It can support open source software as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You're the one mentioning Jira, GitHub, Trello as possible solution to
> > >
> > > solve the fact that you don't like Storyboard. This is IMO very far
> from
> > >
> > > the spirit of free software. Sorry if you took it as a personal attack:
> > >
> > > there's nothing personal here, just a strong opposition to using this
> > >
> > > kind of services.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The fact that many projects are using these non-free services to
> produce
> > >
> > > free software is actually a problem, not a solution. Same for Github
> > >
> > > being (probably) the largest repository of free software: that's a huge
> > >
> > > problem, as huge as the number of projects hosted. Lucky, many just
> > >
> > > think of it as just free hosting and nothing more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gitlab being open-core, as Jeremy pointed out, is also a problem
> (anyone
> > >
> > > that knows about the beginning of OpenStack and Eucalyptus knows why
> > >
> > > open core is problematic).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I did not propose that in any part. Launchpad is FLOSS and that is my
> > >
> > > proposal.
> > >
> > > > The general idea behind my mail was to emphasise that Storyboard has
> > > > great aspirations
> > > > and assumptions but is far from delivering its full potential so
> > > > should not be recommended without
> > > > giving background and other possible solutions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Launchpad is hardly installable, and is tightly connected to
> > >
> > > Canonical/Ubuntu. It is a very good thing that the OpenStack community
> > >
> > > has made efforts to get out of it. It is IMO counter-productive to push
> > >
> > > projects to either go back to launchpad, or not migrate to Storyboard.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The only viable solution is to contribute and make Storyboard better,
> or
> > >
> > > switching to another existing free software. There are many out there
> > >
> > > that could have done the job.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thomas Goirand (zigo)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > openstack-discuss mailing list
> > >
> > > openstack-discuss at lists.openstack.org
> > >
> > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-discuss
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > So, thomas, your message was rude and can hurt because Yocto didnâ??t
> > suggested to use those tools, he was answering you that he feel the pain
> as
> > everyone is suggesting those tool when you talk with people on IRC etc.
> >
> > Even if I do understand your point and know the importance of being
> > autonomous and do not rely on non-FLOSS software, the thruth being all
> > those discussions is the pain in the ass that it is to contribute to
> > Openstack projects compared with other Open source software based on
> Github
> > or Github like workflow.
> actully i would stongly disaggree i find working with the github workflow
> to be
> much less compelling for code review then a gerrit based workflow.
> i used gitlab for deveploemnt before is started workign on openstack
> have found gerrit based workflow to be simpler and eaiser to have async
> conversations
> with then github. primarlly since comment live with the version on which
> they are posted.
> also when you rebase your fork it udates the code visabel in the pull
> requests meaning
> that the comments that are there from previous version fo the patch
> nolonger make sense
> sicne the code has now changes so looking back on why changes were made
> becomes much much
> harder.
> >
> > The opensource community and especially the Openstack one need to
> > understand that people really get a limited amount of time and so if you
> > want to attract more people your contribution process have to be
> > streamlined and on par with what most of us developers do experience on
> > everyday. The foundation made a first step toward that by migrating every
> > project on gitea, and honestly, Iâ??m still amazed that while migrating
> those
> > projects it wasnâ??t decided to use the issues/projects feature of gitea.
> > There even is a cicd zuul plugin for gitea.
> i do like githubs issue tracking and if gitea has a similar set of
> functionality
> i do think that would be a good alternitive to launchpad that i could
> certenly work with
> happily. storyborad did not really meet that need which is why i still
> prefer lanuchpad however
> for larger projects like nova gitea still performs quite pooly so it woudl
> depend on how responsive
> it actully is in production. the simple lables/tags, milestones and issue
> + integration with
> commit message comments is one of the things i love about gitlab that i
> missed when i first started
> working with lanuchpad although closes-bug has been supported with a bot
> to close lanuchpad issue
> since i started mroe or less  so that lessened the pain.
>
> so +1 on github sytle issue tracking but i woudl be -1 on moveing to a
> pull request flow instead
> of gerrit.
> >
> > As a community we propose things, but if the community donâ??t use them,
> itâ??s
> > because itâ??s not what theyâ??re waiting for. We also need to step back from
> > time to time and admit that one software need to sunset and be migrated
> > elsewhere.
> well thats the thihng story board does work for a subset of the community.
> lanuchpad works for another.
> gitea might also work and i would be interested to see what that would
> looklike
> as i think issue tracking was onething github/gitlab got right.
> >
> > We want a fully floss project to host it?
> both launchpad and story borad are opensocue by the way.
> the pushback on launchpad primarly comes form the fact that is not hosted
> by the openstack foundation
> and as a result you need an external ubuntu one login. that said you use
> teh same login for gerrit
> so removeing the use of launchpad will not  remove the need for you
> account unless we also added
> a new singel signon provider hosted by the foundation. gerrit certenly
> support other openid backends
> but its not configured for them on opendev or at least the openstack one
> is not.
>
> >  Fine itâ??s perfectly valid
> > argument, then just reuse whatâ??s already there with gitea and redirect
> > development effort of the abandonned software to the new platform in
> order
> > to support the missing part if ever required!
> >
> > > <http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-discuss
> >
>
>
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