Subject: [tw] Re: [TW5] Desirable core additions

Hi Tony,
I really hope we can use your experiences as a further spur to improving the documentation for Tiddlywiki. It's something the community have been aware of a long time and which we have (imo) yet to seriously address. Some measure of the difficulty we experience in this regard is in determining just which functions are 'basic' and which are 'advanced'. Many things are possible with Tiddlywiki but the 'how to' runs the gamut from 'click things' to 'basically programming'. 
I think you'll find that the 'set' mechanism does basically what you want. It was added during development (I believe) to deal with a requirement like the one you have. What we need to work out is where and how that should be documented to save other people the frustration that you have had to deal with.
We need to move away from this terrible group platform to something that lets us start to construct a meaningful knowledge base.
On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 10:08:13 AM UTC+10, TonyM wrote:Richard,

Thanks for your empathy.

The best example of the first case Psudo constants is in the post above, this works for me in subtiddlers however as it returns the constant only in the form <<currentobject>> it is still of limited value. Lets imagin I have a value it may even be the tiddler name I have open but it could be field value or any string and I want to make it available to all subtiddlers eg those included via tabs, or those transcluded into the current one.  There should be a simple set statement or other format which does this, and behaves similar to the <<currentobject>> above. In every case I have tried so far the values change depending on context, as a result of a filter, if used in a macro, a widget, send-message the tiddler in which it lays such that the same value needs to be handled and referenced in a range of different forms when it is clear as anything what I am trying to do, the mechanisium is just not there nor straitfroward. I use the term Psudo-constant because in my example <<currentobject>> is set in the "master" tiddler" and will be different or not exist in other tiddlers, but will be available in subTiddlers.

I will revisit the tag view template method you mention but again, the ability to edit fields in the same tiddler should simply be catered for in the core not requiring convolutted solutions.
eg edit-field-here fieldname with the self update issues adderessed behind the sceens,and if nessasary turning refresh transclusions off until enter, set or save button is pressed.

Of critical importiance, I now hove ways to do the above two things, but they are hard to use, unrelaiable and change with context all the time. The fact I can even ask for such featured is only after some 100hours of learining, and realising they are not there. Future users need this reduced to much less time.

I would also like to add a caviet, When I develop solutions I always try and develop reusable solutions so I am not keen on hard coding something such as "constants" that are context sensive because if you clone a tiddler they will no longer work. My phudo-constant addresses this, it can be set from a title or field name but remains constant below that.


On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 1:22:58 PM UTC+10, RichardWilliamSmith wrote:Hi Tony,
I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I feel your frustration. I've been there lots of times - convinced that the thing I'm trying to do should be simple and yet not being able to find a way to do it. Often I find that whilst two things might seem equally complicated, one of them is trivial and the other is impossible. Such is life.
To help us address your first point, could you give a specific example of something that you feel the current syntax should be able to do and can't? Is it possible to get the desired behaviour by storing the values of your constants in tiddler fields and referring to them directly?
As to your second point; if you find any of the tiddlers tagged with $:/tags/EditTemplate (for example $:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields) and add the tag $:/tags/ViewTemplate they will appear in the view template too. Maybe this is a little more crude than you were imagining? It can be improved upon by writing some UI of our own, if you have a specific idea of how you'd like it to work. Is this basically what you meant?

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