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Re: [DISCUSS] Flink backward compatibility


Some scenarios that come to mind:

Flink client binary compatibility with remote cluster: This would include
RemoteStreamEnvironment, RESTClusterClient etc. - User should be able to
submit the job built with 1.6.x using the 1.6.x binaries to the remote
Flink 1.7.x or later cluster. The use case for this is Beam.

REST API compatibility: User tooling built against 1.6.x REST API spec
continues to work with 1.7.x or later REST API

CLI compatibility: The commands/options exposed in the CLI continue to be
available after an upgrade. Users can just point to the new CLI location.

Metrics:  Metrics that exist in 1.6.x are available in 1.7.x

There is probably a lot more (such as various backends that users can
configure and their options) and there are different levels of
cost/complexity trade-offs. I brought up the REST API in the past after
observing the tools breakage when going from 1.4.x to 1.5.x.

The client binary compatibility issue will grow more severe as the
ecosystem expands. Beam is a representative example in that category. To
solve the issue downstream, different communities and users each would need
to come up with build system/release support for multiple parallel Flink
versions. It would be better to shield from such complexity.

Thanks,
Thomas


On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 6:27 AM Fabian Hueske <fhueske@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think this is a very good discussion to have.
> Flink is becoming part of more and more production deployments and more
> tools are built around it.
> The question is do we want to (or can we) make parts of the
> control/maintenance/monitoring API stable such that external
> systems/frameworks can rely on them as stable.
>
> Which APIs are relevant?
> Which APIs could be declared as stable?
> Which parts are still evolving?
>
> Fabian
>
> Am Di., 27. Nov. 2018 um 15:10 Uhr schrieb Chesnay Schepler <
> chesnay@xxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> I think this discussion needs specific examples as to what should be
>> possible as it otherwise is to vague / open to interpretation.
>>
>> For example, "job submission" may refer to CLI invocations continuing to
>> work (i.e. CLI arguments), or being able to use a 1.6 client against a
>> 1.7 cluster, which are entirely different things.
>>
>> What does "management" include? Dependencies? Set of  jars that are
>> released on maven? Set of jars bundled with flink-dist?
>>
>> On 26.11.2018 17:24, Thomas Weise wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I wanted to bring back the topic of backward compatibility with respect
>> to
>> > all/most of the user facing aspects of Flink. Please note that isn't
>> > limited to the programming API, but also includes job submission and
>> > management.
>> >
>> > As can be seen in [1], changes in these areas cause difficulties
>> > downstream. Projects have to choose between Flink versions and users are
>> > ultimately at disadvantage, either by not being able to use the desired
>> > dependency or facing forced upgrades to their infrastructure.
>> >
>> > IMO the preferred solution would be that downstream projects can build
>> > against a minimum version of Flink and expect compatibility with future
>> > releases of the major version stream. For example, my project depends on
>> > 1.6.x and can expect to run without recompilation on 1.7.x and later.
>> >
>> > How far away is Flink from stabilizing the surface that affects typical
>> > users?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Thomas
>> >
>> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/BEAM-5419
>> >
>>
>>