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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Replace with Gitter with Slack?


BTW.. big thanks to @Kaxil Naik <kaxilnaik@xxxxxxxxx> for deploying a
heroku app that makes automatic Slack invitations a snap :
https://apache-airflow-slack.herokuapp.com/

I'll be update the Readme.md shortly via
https://github.com/apache/incubator-airflow/pull/3878

I'll see if I can badge-ify this link!

-s

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM Ben Gregory <ben@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Here you go Andrew --
>
> This link should work for the next 27 days:
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-airflow/shared_invite/enQtNDMxMTU3MzM1NDg4LTVkMTg3MGU5MzhhMDQ1NDNjNjgyNTQ3MjQzNjk1YmVmZWFiYWY4NjlhNDQ5MWQyNzZlYzE3NTIyMDBiYWQxNjM
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM Andrew Harmon <andrewhharmon@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace?
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the context.
> > >
> > > So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and
> > it
> > > pretty active.
> > >
> > > What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g.
> > > singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups.
> > >
> > > At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel.
> > > -s
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <jghoman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC
> > > > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or
> PMC
> > > > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list).
> > > > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions
> of
> > > > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc.  How those VOTEs are
> > > > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or
> > > > majority) are up to the community to decide.
> > > >
> > > > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's
> Hadoop's:
> > > > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html).  However, extensive bylaws
> are
> > > > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or
> > > > unwieldy community.  This is why Incubator projects are not generally
> > > > recommended to go down this route.  Also, incubator podlings are not
> > > > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the
> Incubator
> > > > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist.
> > > >
> > > > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are
> valid
> > > > at the pleasure of the Board.  If the Board deems any part of them
> > > > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and
> > > > require the project to change them immediately.
> > > >
> > > > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit
> > > > concerning.  This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further
> > > > discussion is probably warranted.  Whether or not it's an official
> > > > result is up for debate.
> > > >
> > > > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter
> > > > or slack channel for any ASF project.  The only official
> communication
> > > > medium for ASF is mailing lists.  The edict 'If it didn't happen on
> > > > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the
> Apache
> > > > Way [1][2].  There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack
> > > > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup.  Every member of the
> > > > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but
> > > > the only place things actually happen is on the list.  Any non-PMC
> > > > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as
> > > > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the
> > > > mailing list and made there.  Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and
> > > > model this behavior.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation
> > > > model of Slack discussions.  For most of my time at Apache, irc was
> > > > the way to go for most projects.  Some had very active irc channels
> > > > and some were nearly dead.  (The #infra irc channel is a godsend
> > > > though.)
> > > >
> > > > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome.  It shows the
> > > > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of
> > > > what it means to an Apache project.
> > > >
> > > > -Jakob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects
> > > > ?
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision
> > > >
> > > > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > Taking Binding votes into account :
> > > > >
> > > > > +1: 1 vote
> > > > >
> > > > >    - Sid Anand
> > > > >
> > > > > 0: 2 votes
> > > > >
> > > > >    - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > >    - Kaxil Naik
> > > > >
> > > > > -0.5: 1 vote
> > > > >
> > > > >    - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding.
> > > > >
> > > > > -s
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer <
> > > arthur.wiedmer@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sid,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) :
> > > > >>
> > > > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community
> > > > members
> > > > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide
> > to
> > > > host
> > > > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want
> > to.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best,
> > > > >> Arthur
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic?
> > > > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some
> > > > extent, a
> > > > >> > community-specific thing."?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a
> > contributor
> > > to
> > > > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to
> > > > master,
> > > > >> or
> > > > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the
> > > > >> binding/non-binding
> > > > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect
> maintainers.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire
> community,
> > > > where
> > > > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to
> > chug
> > > > >> along
> > > > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers'
> > votes
> > > > >> matter
> > > > >> > more here?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > -s
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <
> bdbruin@xxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is
> tagged
> > > by,
> > > > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim <
> > > scott.halgrim@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > > >> > .INVALID>
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after
> your
> > > > vote?
> > > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin <
> > > > bdbruin@xxxxxxxxx>,
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote.
> > > Please
> > > > >> > update
> > > > >> > > the
> > > > >> > > >> result accordingly.
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself?
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <
> sanand@xxxxxxxxxx
> > >:
> > > > >> > > >>
> > > > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand
> > > > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter
> > > > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker
> > > > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger
> > > > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado
> > > > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim
> > > > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane
> > > > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino
> > > > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen
> > > > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar
> > > > >> > > >>> - William Horton
> > > > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin
> > > > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf
> > > > >> > > >>> - James Meickle
> > > > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha
> > > > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??)
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes
> against.
> > > The
> > > > >> > > community
> > > > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter.
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > > >>> -s
> > > > >> > > >>>
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > --
> > Andrew Harmon
> > (202) 615-6433
> >
>
>
> --
>
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> *Ben Gregory*
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