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Re: [VOTE] Replace with Gitter with Slack?


Good points Ben.

Gitter has Communities and Rooms. Currently, we seem to be represented in 2
Gitter communities and a few rooms:

   - Airflow Developers (This was our first Gitter community)
   - 2 rooms
         - Dev
         - Lobby
      - Apache
      - incubator-airflow

The Airflow Developers community seems to be the one we had before joining
Apache. It's a black hole in the sense that we can't create new rooms under
it, we don't know who owns it (possibly Airbnb), & people show up once in a
while, ask a question, and don't get a response. This one should definitely
be shut down.

The other community is the Apache one, which is where our Github gitter
badge on the Readme.md points. We have a single room there called
incubator-airflow. This is what you refer to.. essentially, it's impossible
to have more than one conversation at a time. It's jarring. Committers are
allowed to create new rooms under this community, but that functionality is
not open to the general public. I just had one of my colleagues try it out
-- as he's not an Apache committer, he was not able to create a room under
Apache.

This is not community friendly. In Slack, any one can create a channel, so
it supports multiple concurrent conversations.

Message retention will be arguably/slightly better on Slack than Gitter.
Slack will support multiple conversations and has a good desktop client.
Gitter does not require you to register a new account, allow you to use
your GitHub account, but as mentioned, the registration is still pretty
lightweight.

-s


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 9:55 AM Ben Gregory <ben@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> +1 to Slack over Gitter but understand the concerns of disruption to
> community and message retention.
>
> IMO - Gitter's main disadvantage is forcing all conversations through one
> channel which means following any one issue is confusing and inefficient.
> I've stopped checking it so much precisely because multiple conversations
> happening at once make it difficult to follow, with or without retention.
> And based on the number of questions that get asked over and over again, I
> would be surprised if people are actually looking through old messages
> prior to posting their own as much as might be expected.
>
> Would this project qualify for a Non-profit discount? Free for 250 users
> and 85% off after that on a standard plan. Unsure as to the Apache
> Foundation's legal status and how this would fall under it.
> https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Nonprofits
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:20 AM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Some good points.
> >
> > @Arthur Wiedmer <arthur.wiedmer@xxxxxxxxx> The Apache mailing list is
> > always the official record and Google indexes it well, so that any
> previous
> > discussions on the mailing lists are available to future generations. I
> > originally started this thread with the thought of having everyone on the
> > mailing list, but then I heard that people need some sort of near
> real-time
> > support in an try-fail-ask iterative fashion --  something that is not
> met
> > by the async nature of mailing lists. This might be for more people
> setting
> > up Airflow for the first time and hitting some stumbling blocks. We don't
> > want walled gardens for sure, but there seems to be a legitimate ask for
> > near real-time collaboration, so the discussion now is just Gitter vs
> > Slack. Slack does require registering, all be it pretty light-weight, but
> > offers a nice desktop client.
> >
> > @Bolke de Bruin <bdbruin@xxxxxxxxx> I'm concerned about the disruption
> to
> > the existing community as well. I'm hoping the vote here reveals that
> > concern in numbers. Also, why can't we shutdown the Gitter channel? At
> the
> > least, we can stop pointing to it.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 7:55 AM William Horton
> > <william.horton@xxxxxxxxxxx.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > *William Horton*
> > > Backend Engineer
> > >
> > > 90 Fifth Avenue, 3rd Floor
> > > New York NY 10011
> > > m: 404.432.8480
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:03 AM, Ravi Kotecha <kotecha.ravi@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > -1
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 2:01 PM Chandu Kavar <cckavar@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:30 AM Sid Anand <sanand@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Folks!
> > > > > > In the Apache tradition, I'd like to ask the community to vote on
> > > > > replacing
> > > > > > Gitter with Slack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For more information about what was recently discussed, refer to
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8eeb6c46ec431b9158f87022ceaa5e
> > > > ed8dbaaf082c887dae55f86f96@%3Cdev.airflow.apache.org%3E
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you would like to replace Gitter with Slack, vote +1. If you
> > want
> > > to
> > > > > > keep things they way they are, vote -1. You can also vote 0 if
> you
> > > > don't
> > > > > > care either way because you wouldn't use either much, preferring
> to
> > > use
> > > > > the
> > > > > > mailing list instead, which is highly encouraged as it is
> Apache's
> > > > > official
> > > > > > record.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The vote will be open for 72 hours and will expire at 8p PT this
> > > > > Saturday.
> > > > > > -s
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. If the community votes for Slack, we could create our own
> > > > workspace
> > > > > > (e.g. airflow.slack.com).
> > > > > > P.P.S. In general, anyone in the community can launch a vote like
> > > this
> > > > > from
> > > > > > time to time. There is no binding/non-binding distinction since
> we
> > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > running an official Apache vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Astronomer Logo] <https://www.astronomer.io/>
>
> *Ben Gregory*
> Data Engineer
>
> Mobile: +1-615-483-3653 • Online: astronomer.io <
> https://www.astronomer.io/>
>
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